Curse

DreamWind · Aug 25, 2007, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Andrew: I feel like all our feedback is being ignored. It's been a long time since you've given any real response, and since then, people have asked a lot of good questions and posed several strong arguments against the change. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to answer some of these posts. This is *especially* if the upcoming changes goes against what TAers want. If the devs implement Proposal 1 (or some derivative) without acknowledging our arguments, well, I guess that'll be a "gg" from your TA community.

Its already been pretty much stated that they don't give a crap about what we think about the change. The only reason these changes even came up in the first place (and are going to happen regardless of what we think) was due to PvE majority crying instead of actually realizing that it would piss off a lot of the people who played there.

Servant of Kali · Aug 25, 2007, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Andrew: I feel like all our feedback is being ignored. It's been a long time since you've given any real response, and since then, people have asked a lot of good questions and posed several strong arguments against the change. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to answer some of these posts. This is *especially* if the upcoming changes goes against what TAers want. If the devs implement Proposal 1 (or some derivative) without acknowledging our arguments, well, I guess that'll be a "gg" from your TA community.

You don't get it. Making it 1win=1glad is a quick and easy solution to deal with leavers.

Just as giving less rewards for losing in FA and AB was a quick and easy solution against leechers.

The fact that leechers were not stopped, and the fact that 1win=1glad will only call for more problems, worries no one. That's because the root of a problem is not gone.

Ruben · Aug 25, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

You don't get it. Making it 1win=1glad is a quick and easy solution to deal with leavers.

Just as giving less rewards for losing in FA and AB was a quick and easy solution against leechers.

The fact that leechers were not stopped, and the fact that 1win=1glad will only call for more problems, worries no one. That's because the root of a problem is not gone.

No sir, YOU don't get it. What Sabby is saying is that doing this may "fix" RA (less leavers / more bots and leechers), but will just screw TA over.
Imagine working hard earning Glad points for months/years, then seeing your title screwed over because of some RAers who do not understand that RA is meant to be random.

Sab · Aug 25, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

You don't get it. Making it 1win=1glad is a quick and easy solution to deal with leavers.

Just as giving less rewards for losing in FA and AB was a quick and easy solution against leechers.

The fact that leechers were not stopped, and the fact that 1win=1glad will only call for more problems, worries no one. That's because the root of a problem is not gone.

As Ruben said.

Also, either Andrew or Ryan said that the new system itself is not supposed to stop leavers, they will add anti-leaver mechanisms in addition to the new system.

Master Ketsu · Aug 25, 2007, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

In the end they will trot their way back to pve farming, and all that will have changed is that competitive 4v4 will be dead.

Just thought I would selfquote myself on this prediction....because it really needs a bold point to it. If proposition 1 is ever implemented, this is exactly what will happen.

The pve complainers arent actually complaining about the title persay- they are discouraged by the fact pvp'ers base their groups off of gladranks and heroranks. They fail to realize that if the glad title is made easier then the pvp community will just shift what an acceptable title is. Their might be more activity in RA and pvp for a little while, but after a few weeks it will just end up back the way it was, with one differance: TA will be dead.

It is for this very reason that the pve GWO'rs voting for #1 should be completely ignored. Asking pve'rs what to do with something that only Pvp'ers understand is like asking A Taco bell employee what improvements Intel could make on their next chip's mask design. Full of fail.

LuckyGiant · Aug 26, 2007, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

The pve complainers arent actually complaining about the title persay

If anyone actually bothered to read the complaints they'd find, very few are complaining about the actual title track. Majority of the complaints are solely about the high proportion of leavers, which its already been said there is a seperate method of dealing with.
The leavers are ruining RA, not the title track. This is obvious since those who care for the title are in the population leaving while those casual players who are playing for fun are not interested as much for the title (since they are not leaving) You're already said you have an anti leaver system so implement it and leave the title alone.

pah01 · Aug 26, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Please Please do not go with proposal 1. The other two proposals are not as bad as that one.

1 point per win is terrible.

Joe

BlackSephir · Aug 26, 2007, 04:33 PM // 16:33

I think it'll be good (great even) if AN implemented anti-leaver and anti-leecher systems right now and then think about how/if to change the glad title.

Cherng Butter · Aug 26, 2007, 05:15 PM // 17:15

Woot, my 60 gladiator points are worthless...

Seriously though, I really thought proposal 2 or 3 were perfectly acceptable compromises...the gladiator title isn't meant to easy to obtain or easily farmed, and I really don't see how this helps the leaver problem...

Div · Aug 26, 2007, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyGiant

If anyone actually bothered to read the complaints they'd find, very few are complaining about the actual title track. Majority of the complaints are solely about the high proportion of leavers, which its already been said there is a seperate method of dealing with.
The leavers are ruining RA, not the title track. This is obvious since those who care for the title are in the population leaving while those casual players who are playing for fun are not interested as much for the title (since they are not leaving) You're already said you have an anti leaver system so implement it and leave the title alone.

Problem is, Anet has no system for dealing with leavers (as of now). The only thing they could do is change the title system in hopes less PvE'ers will whine. Because they rather sacrifice the TA community so that less of the PvE community whines.

Orange Milk · Aug 27, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange Milk
Dreamwind you have already posted in other threads admitting that you are A. A Leaver, B. A Syncer, C. A RA Glad farmer who never TA's.

I didn't admit to any of those. You can make up things I say to help your argument if it makes you feel good. I said I DON'T AGREE with changing RA as it already was. I liked it perfectly fine how it was and I think the problem is vastly overstated.

Here ya go:

Quote:

The best way to pursue glad points is to leave hopeless teams and not waste time.

Quote:

I wouldn't play TA if I had an organized team, and I only play RA when I have minimal time. The only way I would ever play TA

Quote:

I didn't say I like my bad teams in the arena. That is why I leave them

Heres the link if you would like to read more.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...173605&page=10

So yeah, this thread is pretty much TAers dicussing why they are against the proposas and attempting to form solutions, so your points are now proven invalid and are not needed, thx for playing, please leave, we all know you are a habitual leaver anyway. I still need to find the thread where you admit to Syncing, just need to do a little research and I'll have it.

Servant of Kali · Aug 27, 2007, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben

No sir, YOU don't get it. What Sabby is saying is that doing this may "fix" RA (less leavers / more bots and leechers), but will just screw TA over.

So how will it fix RA if leavers will be replaced with bots and leechers? I fail to see it.

My point was exactly that - ANet is shuffling instead of solving things. I'd rather have leavers than leechers and bots.

Sab · Aug 27, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servant of Kali

So how will it fix RA if leavers will be replaced with bots and leechers? I fail to see it.

My point was exactly that - ANet is shuffling instead of solving things. I'd rather have leavers than leechers and bots.

Note the "fix" in quotation marks. Right now ANet sees leavers as a problem. They'll "fix" the problem by implementing whatever anti-leaver measures they have in store. But in reality, that's just going to bring about more problems, none of which have been acknowledged by the devs. The point of my post earlier was that there's little point continuing this thread if the devs aren't listening us.

Andrew Patrick · Aug 27, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Andrew: I feel like all our feedback is being ignored. It's been a long time since you've given any real response, and since then, people have asked a lot of good questions and posed several strong arguments against the change. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to answer some of these posts. This is *especially* if the upcoming changes goes against what TAers want. If the devs implement Proposal 1 (or some derivative) without acknowledging our arguments, well, I guess that'll be a "gg" from your TA community.

Maybe you missed this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

We have been gathering feedback from the forums and Ryan's talk page and the designers are working on tweaks to the proposals to hopefully address many of your concerns. As soon as they work out all the numbers I will let you guys know what they are looking at now. They are very carefully monitoring these discussions and are definitely keeping TA players in mind while trying to find a system that works well for both the hard core and the casual players.

That is the last thing I heard on this topic. I will likely have a new proposal or proposals to share with you shortly after GW:EN ships. I'm still reading this thread, and frankly, no one is really saying anything that hasn't already been said, and until the new proposals are posted, people are basing their concerns on proposals that are no longer relevant.

Rapture · Aug 27, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

pvpers are happy with the current state of leavers. nobody really minds if they dont waste 2 minutes being nub stomped.

if you make any change to curb the leaving you do so to make pvp arenas more fluffy at the expense of pvpers. you already know this of course, its just a simple question of whether you care?

there are 14 million pvers afterall.

_SiO_ · Aug 27, 2007, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

That is the last thing I heard on this topic. I will likely have a new proposal or proposals to share with you shortly after GW:EN ships. I'm still reading this thread, and frankly, no one is really saying anything that hasn't already been said, and until the new proposals are posted, people are basing their concerns on proposals that are no longer relevant.

how about this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by _SiO_

its just a slightly modded version of the current one...

10 wins (consecutive)= 1 glad
20 wins (c) = 2 glads
30 wins (c) = 3 glads
40 wins (c) = 4 glads
50, 60, 70 --> oo wins (c) = 5 glads

this would help TA, and the TA community cuz it would reward skill, and not syncing, leaving etc...

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=256

African War Lord · Aug 27, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Make an option when you leave. Something simple like,
are you sure you want to leave this match? and you'll have 2 choices:

1. Yes something important has come up (you cannot return to this arena for 10 minutes) you don't lose a point or faction with this option.

2. I'm having second thoughts (lose all faction or 1 glad point, you may return immediately)

maybe not those exact penalties but there has to be some sort of penalty for leaving a match.

As for the gladiator title. I have 172 glad points and to be honest, I'm kind of sick of the stress involved in getting to 10 wins. I know I've lost atleast 172 games at 9 wins. For this my suggestion would be simply, you gain 1/2 glad point for 5 wins and keep the title track the way it is. It'll be less stressful to gain glad points. RA should be fun not stressful.

TA's another story, and should probably have a different title track but I don't TA enough to really have an opinion.

lacasner · Aug 27, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

That is the last thing I heard on this topic. I will likely have a new proposal or proposals to share with you shortly after GW:EN ships. I'm still reading this thread, and frankly, no one is really saying anything that hasn't already been said, and until the new proposals are posted, people are basing their concerns on proposals that are no longer relevant.

I still don't see a reason not to just add a new track for RA which recognizes 1 point per win, for instance RA Duelists points or w/e

Div · Aug 28, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Patrick

That is the last thing I heard on this topic. I will likely have a new proposal or proposals to share with you shortly after GW:EN ships. I'm still reading this thread, and frankly, no one is really saying anything that hasn't already been said, and until the new proposals are posted, people are basing their concerns on proposals that are no longer relevant.

Andrew: Problem is, the "solutions" Anet has shown us are horrible. Changing the title track to "I can enter battle"? We're only basing our concerns on your "solutions" (aka conforming to PvE whiners that don't know anything about TA), and if you actually gave us a better update of the plans in progress, it'd help us change our points of concern better. Until you give us a better understanding of what the proposals are (preferably also a copy on guru, not just official wiki), our concerns are still relevant.

The faster the communication, the more helpful feedback we can give so that we're not here worrying about irrelevant things anymore. As it stands now, you can't ignore our concerns because Anet hasn't released the new proposals.

If gladiator becomes an "enter battle" title, we should reward masters on missions after someone fails the mission both times at the halfway point.

P.S. I read the Ryan Scott talk page, and a lot of it includes trash from PvE'ers that don't know what they're talking about. Granted, it's a democracy, but the majority is not always right (and in this case it definitely isn't). A similar comparison would be to ask questions about the human body to the common people, then ask it to doctors. The doctors are going to be a lot more accurate and correct, even though the commoners are the mass majority.

Some good reads from that talk page: Skilled players vs dedicated players

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skilled players vs dedicated players

As it stands now, it is very much possible for a casual player that plays twice a week for, say, 3 hours a pop, to get more Glads than a kid that plays over 8 hours a day, simply because such kid lacks the stamina necessary for 10 win streaks.

That is because to win 10 times in a row means that you are able to consistently beat teams of more or less skilled players, while coming across 5 weak teams in RA and getting a glad point without any real challenge is a real common event. By playing 10 matches in a row you are far more likely to meet an opposing player which has a counter to (at least some part of) your build and dealing with those sticky situations is what being a Gladiator is all about.

Bad reads: My vote is on proposal #1, Proposal 1 is the only one that will cut down on leechers, Proposal #1 is best

Quote:

Originally Posted by My vote is on proposal #1

I'm more of a PvE player, but when I pvp, I like to R/A or F/A. So far I've got only one point, but if I were to count all the times I've played in R.A and had the 10 consecutive wins, then I woulda gotten 6 points into the title. Proposal #1 would be great for somebody like me who decides to Pvp like once or twice a month, but spend most of their time in PvE. IMO, winning one battle is hard enough as it is, but then again I haven't R/A'ed in a while. If proposal #1 does become the new thing, I'd most likely spend more time in R.A. again. Makes me feel like I'm not wasting my time so much if I didn't reach that 10 mark, y'know?

Clearly he's not good at the game. But yet when someone like him dies in a mission, he tries over and over again to beat it. Why does he have that incentive there? Maybe worth exploring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proposal 1 is the only one that will cut down on leechers

If people are leaving because they dont' think their team will get to 10 wins why would they stay with a team if it was only required to get 5 wins. I dont' really see the difference. Most of the teams that get to 5 get to 10 anyways, and for RA sake, to get rid of leechers proposal 1 would fix it. The best solution for RA leavers now would be for them to go make a team in TA, but obviously this isn't the case.

So why would he stay if it's one win? He wants the best team possible to get the bonus points at 5 and 10. Or if he knows the team will fail, he can just leech that battle and go in again.

Legendary Shiz · Aug 28, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

I don't even see why proposal one is even an OPTION to be honest. 1 point PER WIN!? It's mind blowing. I mean....why? What's the point of that? It literally doesn't take ANY skill to rack up points like that. I could go in with an empty skill bar every game, and still pull out more points that way than in the system it is in now. WHICH MAKES SENSE.

There's nothing wrong with the system implemented now, and leavers aren't even that bad of a problem tbh. On my way to a glad I'll see MAYBE one or two leavers per 10. Of course it varies, sometimes I see none sometimes I see more than two. But it's not worth ruining anything else to stop it.